Thursday, October 20, 2011

Lil White Lies: I Dream of Gini

Lawyers’ Rules of Thumb(i.e., how my conservative counterpart works his blog):
If you can’t use the law (i.e., argue fallacies), use the facts
If you don’t have facts, use the law (i.e., argue fallacies)
If you have neither law (fallacies) nor the facts, pound on the table and create a distraction.


Here we have another sublimely bloviating multiple-infected specimen of misrepresenting the source along with the underlying argument of a PolitiFact (PF) ruling. My conservative counterpart takes aim at a statement made by ex-Florida-congressman Alan Grayson on MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow Show that there are “are only five countries in the entire planet that are more unequal than the United States in the distribution of our wealth.”

The first part of Bryan White’s argument is that PolitiFact’s Lou Jacobson (who else!) incorrectly attributed where Grayson said he got his information: a link provided in Wikipedia to a “peer-reviewed” paper published in The Economic Journal in 2010. He explains:

If the PolitiFact team had paid closer attention, they would have noticed that the numbers on which Grayson relies were not published in any peer-reviewed journal. The numbers Grayson used ultimately came from an appendix (Excel file) to a working paper that preceded the version published in The Economic Journal.

PolitiFact reports falsely in claiming that PolitiFact sourced its numbers to the linked "a peer-reviewed paper." Sift through the linked work from now until doomsday and you won't find "Namibia" mentioned at all nor any comprehensive list of Gini coefficients (identified by PolitiFact as the primary statistic used to identify inequality) for all the nations of the earth.
But if one reads the paper (paid closer attention!), one would find 25 countries listed,with the identical Gini Coefficients from the “unpublished” Appendix VI, in Table 7 on page 246 . The writers describe how they chose these 25 countries: “Note. Countries are listed according to the number of members of the global top wealth decile.” In other words, the writers made this the criteria for selecting countries from Appendix VI. In fact, Table 7 has the U.S. as Numero Uno in wealth disparity, as the four countries which exceed it are not there, although one of them, Switzerland, is mentioned on the previous page: “…Switzerland, whose distribution is based on hard data with good detail in the upper tail, has a Gini coefficient of 0.803 (Davies et al., 2009, Appendix VI) The US and Switzerland have Gini coefficients close to the global wealth Gini of 0.802.” And right there is the cross reference to “Davies et al., Appendix VI” which is cited frequently throughout the paper. James Davies is the first “academic” listed as the writer of the paper.
So, if Appendix VI wasn't published, what becomes of this? Does that make it incorrect?
If one looks at the working papers cited/linked in a bottom reference at Wikipedia, one can see it reads like the paper submitted to The Economic Journal. In other words, it’s virtually certain that Appendix VI served as the data source for Table 7. Actually, it WAS published, although not in The Economic Journal: it was at the NBER, National Bureau of Economic Research. I suppose only the reference was required for the table instead of appending it to what was published in The Economic Journal; but for all intents and purposes it was the foundation of the paper’s Table 7 and was the sole reliance for the Gini data presented . You can say it was partially published, but it can’t be said, as Bryan’s trying to claim, that it wasn’t published at all.

But as we all know, Bryan isn’t going to stop there. He sets his sights on Grayson’s underlying argument, which he says is about unemployment. Let’s take a better look at what Grayson said, or I should say, what Bryan left out of what he said in his post. The underlying arguments are highlighted:

Maddow: The "Occupy Wall Street" protests seem to be connecting with people despite a campaign on the right to portray them as scary. What do you think is resonating so much here?

GRAYSON: I think they have their eyes open and more and more people are seeing the scales fall from their eyes as well, because the "Occupy Wall Street" people are saying first there`s no accountability on Wall Street. They wrecked our economy.

Years ago, they took a healthy economy and they gave us 9 percent, 10 percent or more unemployment. And they destroyed 20 percent of our national wealth in the course of just 18 months from the middle of 2007, to the end of 2008, destroyed 20 percent of our national wealth accumulated over the course of two centuries. And nobody`s been prosecuted for it. Nobody`s been indicted. Nobody`s been convicted.

So, first, there`s no accountability. The second thing is that they`ve created a system that is enormously unequal. And the result of that is people are struggling to find a job to pay their bills, to pay their rent, to pay their credit card bills. ….

And the way that they enforce is the third gripe. The third gripe is Wall Street controls and dominates our political system. One party is a wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street and the other caters to Wall Street all too much. So, people got into the situation right now where they feel that the system is completely unresponsive and they`re driven deeper and deeper into debt and misery.”
Bryan argues that it’s really about unemployment or income inequality, and because Jacobson doesn’t quite explain why the U.S.’s income Gini was “in the middle of the pack” or how it relates to the wealth inequality, it somehow makes Grayson’s underlying argument “spurious.” However, if Bryan had actually read The Economic Journal paper (paid closer attention!), he would have found some background on the income Gini :
“Table 7 gives wealth Gini coefficients for the larger countries and for the world as a whole. As mentioned earlier, wealth distribution is unambiguously more unequal than income distribution in all countries which allow comparison….(Page 244, 21 of the pdf)

Missing from Table 7, of course, are the worlds smaller countries, some of which are of special interest. (See Davies et al. (2009, Appendix VI) for details on all countries.) For example, some of the countries with very high wealth rankings have much less spectacular income rankings.” (Page 247, 24 of the pdf)
There’s another reference to Appendix VI (“for details on all countries”)! As you can see, the Economic Journal paper seems to be saying that there is no correlation or causation between degree of employment and wealth distribution, so making a case of Spain’s unemployment as it related to the Gini index was, as Bryan might call it out on others, a little bit of straw man thrown in as a distraction.

Bryan conflates income and wealth when he says in summary that “It's neither careful nor admirable to characterize income inequality measuring near the middle of the pack as "overwhelming" or "staggering," especially with such thin (if any) correlation to general prosperity.” Grayson made it clear he was talking about wealth, not income, as was noted in the PF piece. While he mentioned unemployment among the myriad of topics which could qualify as the underlying argument to the fact-checked statement, it was not the only underlying argument as Bryan would like you to believe. Jacobson did not need to waste his time going over all of the underlying argument possibilities. Occupy Wall Street is not just about unemployment, as Grayson argued: it’s about the lack of accountability, the destruction of wealth and the way our political system has been hijacked by corporations.

There’s also sources I presented on Facebook which neither Jeff nor Bryan responded to, showing the U.S. wealth Gini coefficient had been steadily increasing since 1980, that it increased twice as fast during the 80’s under Reagan than it did when Clinton was president. This was a response to Bryan’s comment: “Then there's the problem of the data referring to the year 2000--when we still had President Clinton if office. He was so great, wasn't he, Democrats?”

Between 1983 and 1989, the Gini coefficient for the distribution of wealth in the U.S. rose by 2.1 percent, indicating more inequality in the distribution of wealth. "Of more significance is the actual size of the Gini number for both income and wealth. In [1980 the Gini coefficient for money income in the U.S. was .4 (Osberg, p. 17)], in 1983, the Gini number for income distribution was .414; the number for wealth distribution was .777. By 1989 the Gini number for income distribution had risen to .428, and for wealth distribution to .793." Peterson, p. 111.)
Bryan might say I am making a “tu quoque” (“you too”) argument, but that’s the same argument he is making. I would also suspect the wealth Gini is probably even higher today by a greater percentage than it was for the period that Clinton was president. So yeah, Clinton was great because he slowed the Gini down even when there was a huge stock market run up.  Oh, and thank you George Bush.

Partner in crime Deff Jeff Dyberg emulated Bryan’s post across the Facebook message boards, asking “does it bother anybody how PF bungled this fact check?” No, Jeff. If he or Bryan had bothered to read that paper they would see that it was cross-referenced several times and that Appendix VI served as the supporting data (as published at the NBER) for the only Gini table in the report.   It's absurd to even suggest that Lou Jacobson and PolitiFact bungled the fact-check or have anything to be embarrassed about.




8 comments:

Bryan White said...

Just checking to see if my comment was published. I'll assume you've been busy.

Karen S. said...

What comment? I didn't publish your one word "Turtles" as I thought they were a little childish. But this is the first I've seen of anything from you lately. I didn't notice anything on stat counter either, because that's where I'll see the "comment" log-in as well. But go ahead and knock yourself out.

Bryan White said...

tsk. Such violent rhetoric!

I guess I'll have to save the "Your comment will be published after blah blah blah" screen capture when I visit this site so that I can wave it in your face later on.

Street Blunder #1:

I specified the link I was talking about with a quotation ("a peer-reviewed paper.") Click the hotlink I specified and you'll never find the information you claimed I missed. You searched in the following link Jacobson provided, which is to the working paper. The working paper and the peer-reviewed version are different.

Street Blunder #2:

it can’t be said, as Bryan’s trying to claim, that it wasn’t published at all.

Straw man fallacy. I specified that the information had not appeared in a peer-reviewed journal ("the numbers on which Grayson relies were not published in any peer-reviewed journal"). You can only support your statement by pointing to where I identified a quotation as from "the published version" which in context obviously refers to the peer-reviewed version. I did not argue that it had never been published at all. You made it up.

Street Blunder #3 (perhaps better labeled sophistry):

You quote Grayson to clarify his underlying argument but replace his rated statement with an ellipsis. Where Grayson makes the claim wealth distribution he is supporting his second point, the one about inequality. Inequality is not the underlying point, it is the obvious point. I get my case for the point underlying his assertion about wealth inequality from Grayson himself: "The second thing is that
they`ve created a system that is enormously unequal. And the result of that is people are struggling to find a job to pay their bills, to pay their rent, to pay their credit card bills." Grayson's blaming the jobs problem on wealth inequality. That's his underlying argument. Most of what you emphasized in bold is not part of the second point and cannot reasonably be said to represent his underlying argument with the wealth inequality numbers. Your use of the ellipsis makes it look like deliberate sophistry rather than simply unskilled analysis.

Bryan White said...

Street Blunder #4:

Bryan argues that it’s really about unemployment or income inequality, and because Jacobson doesn’t quite explain why the U.S.’s income Gini was “in the middle of the pack” or how it relates to the wealth inequality, it somehow makes Grayson’s underlying argument “spurious.”

Grayson specifically suggested the connection between inequality and people having to look for jobs to pay their bills. Your attempt to encapsulate my argument is unforgivably clumsy.

Street Blunder #5

It's amusing that you suggest I did not read the paper and follow that up with two quotations from it that I remember reading. Neither quotation affects my arguments about Grayson or the meaning of the paper.

Street Blunder #6

Bryan conflates income and wealth when he says in summary that “It's neither careful nor admirable to characterize income inequality measuring near the middle of the pack as "overwhelming" or "staggering," especially with such thin (if any) correlation to general prosperity.” Grayson made it clear he was talking about wealth, not income, as was noted in the PF piece.

On the contrary, I noted the U.S. ranking for income after quoting Grayson from the PolitiFact story: ""there is overwhelming, staggering inequality in America, however it is measured, and that inequality substantially exceeds the inequality in many other countries." When Grayson says "however it is measured" it means that he's not restricting it to measurements of wealth. You get a "Golden Duh" award for that one. There was no conflation of wealth and income inequality on my part.

Bryan White said...

Street Blunder review A (we've kind of been over this one already):

Occupy Wall Street is not just about unemployment, as Grayson argued: it’s about the lack of accountability, the destruction of wealth and the way our political system has been hijacked by corporations.

Gini coefficients have no reasonable application to lack of accountability nor system hijack by corporations. They apply to the assertion of inequality, and Grayson blamed inequality for the fact people were looking for jobs so they could pay their bills. Not rocket science.

Street Blunder #7

You can dance around all you like (red herring), but Grayson's data come from 2000. If our high ranking according to that data is a problem then it is a problem in 2000, the year for which the data apply. Nobody makes the argument that it's a problem except Grayson, who asserts that the inequality is the cause of the lack of jobs people need in order to pay their bills. Grayson says it. It's in the immediate context. PolitiFact ignores it and so do you.

To put an even finer point on it, inequality per se is not an objective problem without some undesirable result (such as job loss). Grayson can complain about inequality as a moral problem if he likes, but PolitiFact has little business grading that as an underlying argument.

Street Blunder #8:

Bryan might say I am making a “tu quoque” (“you too”) argument, but that’s the same argument he is making.

No, no. Your argument about Clinton is just irrelevant. It doesn't get Grayson off the hook for using data from 2000 for use in explaining calamity in 2008. And there's no tu quoque on my part at all. I'm not saying Clinton did it, too, so what Bush did is okay. I'm saying that Grayson's data have no reasonable application to the events of 2008 and after. I'm afraid that your hypothesis of higher wealth inequality is not yet peer reviewed, so it's not much use in a fact check. Certainly Grayson neglected to reference your hypothesis.

Street Blunder #9:

If ... Bryan had bothered to read that paper they would see that it was cross-referenced several times and that Appendix VI served as the supporting data (as published at the NBER) for the only Gini table in the report.

How pathetic.

Sorry, but papers cited in a paper do not receive "peer-reviewed" status by proxy through their inclusion in the notes. There's no way to take only the information published in The Economics Journal and put a No. 5 ranking on the United States for wealth inequality.

The following statement is false (taken in context):
"The peer-reviewed data backs up Grayson’s claim that 'there are only five countries in the entire planet that are more unequal than the United States in the distribution of our wealth.'"

Jacobson wrote it, and any reporter or researcher who bases a story on false information has good reason for embarrassment.

Speaking of which, I have to give you some sort of credit for being able to cram so much error into such a relatively small space.

Karen S. said...

Your comments aren’t even worth an answer. Just nine pieces of crap: A cynical sentence by sentence deconstruction designed to mire and muddle the actual issue at hand.

In the big picture, what Grayson said was True, and saying it was “bungled” (Jeff’s words) because the table was not published is like saying in court there’s no such thing as an implied contract because it wasn’t written. Like I said in my FB comment, if Grayson had used the published Table with the 25 and said the U.S. was Number 1 in wealth disparity (which was what that table says), you’d be complaining that there’s another unpublished table that says the U.S. is Number 5 and so this must be false.

BTW, did you see the recent CBO report which bolsters Grayson’s claims even more?
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/26/news/economy/cbo_income/index.htm

Bryan White said...

Wow. You're even worse than I thought. You've been proved wrong on point after point and you simply dismiss it without addressing the arguments.

The fact that you think the CBO report bolster's Grayson's claims helps confirm the poor quality of your analysis. Yes, there are wide gulfs between rich and poor for wealth and income. And the gulfs tend to be wider during prosperous times. As I pointed out, Grayson has no real argument unless wealth inequality has demonstrably ill effects. The silliness of his argument is illustrated by the fact that OWS has a protest arm in Spain, which has (iirc) the very lowest Gini coefficient among the OECD nations.

Professor Epstein explains the upside of income inequality:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec11/makingsense_10-26.html

Karen S. said...

Blunder Bust! http://politi-psychotics.blogspot.com/2011/11/sidebar-gini-is-out-of-bottle.html

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